Recap of Startup Weekend

A few quick notes on a fun event I attended the last few days.  Startup Weekend is a 54 hour event that provides the networking, resources, and incentives for individuals and teams to go from idea to launch.

In a nutshell, I was one of 80 people to show up on Friday evening, where 28 people pitched ideas for products/companies that they wanted to build in the next 2 days, with this event being focused around mobile and gaming.  We whittled the 28 ideas down to 13, and everyone split into teams to tackle the projects.  

The crowd was an eclectic mix of developers, designers, database guys, product managers and a few random biz dev and marketing guys thrown in.  I’ll admit I was a little nervous venturing into this crew.  I’m a marketing guy, so I get pretty intimidated by guys who have the technical firepower to make things suddenly appear.  But the goal of something like this is to surround yourself with big brains and meet people who inspire you through their expertise and accomplishments, so I tried to dive right in and meet as many interesting people as I could. 

The product ideas ranged form the ridiculous to the useful, to the obscure to the just plain odd.  But at the end of the weekend, a few groups had launched some pretty cool stuff.  And even though some of the projects weren’t fully baked by Sunday night, there were definitely a few things to watch out for.  A few highlights:

(Keep in mind that these projects went from an idea to execution in 54 hours…)

Nubi Nubi: A bunch of talented artists and dev guys created a little app where a little avatar would dance to the beat of music you picked for him.   You could change the dance moves by clicking on different buttons.  Cool revenue opps as you buy more avatars, dance moves, music, and more.

Doodle A Doodle: The winner of the event, this iPad app is designed so that kids can learn to draw (or trace) by tracing over images on the screen.  There’s a social network component that parents and kids can enjoy.

Hold It: The crowd favorite for humor.  In this game, you are a Men’s room Attendant, and you must coordinate what people get to use what stall in the john.  Some characters need privacy, some need space, some are obnoxious, etc…  But you must use your skill to gain points by putting people at urinals and toilets they feel comfortable at.

Happy Food:  Think a cross between Foursquare, Yelp and Urbanspoon.  This app allows you to search for restaurants that cater to special diets, such as Vega, Gluten Free, Nut Free, etc…make recommendations, and provide useful feedback.

Task Me: I dug this organizational app, even though it’s not done yet.  I spend enough time using iPhone’s Notepad as a To Do list, that this would be huge if they get it done.  Please do it guys…

There were a ton of other cool ideas, and the density of super smart people and knowledge sharing was something I hadn’t been part of for years and years.  It was amazing to see such a spirit of collaboration amongst people who don’t know each other.  Plus, many of the people there were actually doing pretty interesting things with their real job.  

Startup Weekend is one of those events where you can just go and get energized by the spirit and collective intelligence of the people in the room.  On one hand, it’s a great place to get humbled, as you see people doing things in real time that shouldn’t be possible to do that quickly.  On the other hand, you get an ego boost, because you are able to make an impact and provide your area of expertise to a group of people whose skills you admire, but who have no ability to mimic your own abilities.

I have 100 good stories to tell you about my team.  My group’s leader was a fascinating guy by the name of Michael Crick.  He would tell these random stories all thru the weekend, and many of them would make me stop what I was doing, look over with a curious stare and say, “Shut the h— up, you did not do that.”   Here’s a teaser.  I was trying to bang out a marketing plan, while Michael offhandedly told a story of a video game he built long ago.  I almost broke my neck when I asked, “Wait a sec.  You wrote the spec for the original Madden Football?” I can’t even do the rest of the stories justice in print, but trust me, they are worth buying me a beer to hear.

Moral of the story.  Whether you can market, develop, design, or whatever other talent you have, get yourself to a Startup Weekend.  Because anything else you have planned for the weekend is less fun, less interesting, and will get you less satisfaction.  Bring a good idea, build a team, and make cool stuff happen.

#ParkaParty Taking On Life of its Own

Congrats to @Roosiehood.  What started as a little project to raise a few hundred bucks for local food banks is taking on a life of its own.

#ParkaParty is in full effect in the Seattle Twittersphere, and shows no sign of letting down.  If you haven’t jumped on board yet, this article from MyNorthwest.com should explain it all.

Now I’m just waiting for my #ParkaParty avatar to arrive…….

In the meantime, here’s a fun little Flickr slideshow from the web site to show some of the folks who have donated.  

 

 

Sad Eyes at Safeco

It’s a cold, miserable gray day, which is fitting given the reason we are all congregating together.

I’m not sure what to expect when I park my car in the Mariners lot south of the stadium, walk down the stairs, and cross the street to the southwest corner of the stadium.  

We’ve all been to this place a hundred times, but never with our heads full of these emotions or these thoughts.  We’ve never entered this place without knowing what to expect, or not knowing how to act.

It doesn’t take very long to realize this is going to be a tough environment to maintain composure.  Right at the front gate, a small memorial has been created.  Notes and flowers from fans, a few rye bread, salami and mustard sandwiches, and some handwritten notes from fans to Dave Niehaus, the man they are here to pay respects to.  There’s a large posterboard from Seattle’s biggest fan, Big Lo, “I put away the Mustard, I put away the rye, I put away my Mariners shirt, and now the My oh My.  Thank you Dave.  You will be missed.”

It’s hard to stare too long at any one item, or even the shrine, for fear of losing it.  And so I go inside the stadium, foolishly thinking it could possibly be less emotional inside the actual temple of the game itself.

Inside it’s dark, and just as cold.  The roof is closed.  There’s really only one thing to see – the line.  A single file line starts at home plate, extends on the edge of the field parallel to the first base line, makes a right turn at 1st base and heads up to the concourse, where it makes another right turn and goes back toward home plate, then down the 3rd base concourse, and all the way down to left field.  

The crowd is made up of fans of all ages.  60 year olds who saw the first game in the Kingdome, 7 year olds who don’t know why their parents have brought them.  Men, women, couples, they are all represented.

The place is pretty quiet – it’s hard to talk when you are biting on your lip.  You hear a few memories being shared.  But mostly we all just wait in line.  It gives us a lot of time to reflect.  There’s no rationale for the 2 hours we’ll meander in line, just to get a few seconds in front of a makeshift memorial at home plate.  

But this death is bigger than a memorial for a single man, a single icon.  It’s an inflection point in the lives of all baseball fans in the Pacific Northwest.  Baseball is unique, because when we walk in a stadium to watch a lousy 2010 Mariners team, we’re not really there for Michael Saunders.  We’re there to remember and share stories about the time we saw Ken Griffey’s first Mariners at bat, or when we jumped fences to get out of the $3.00 General Admission section, or when we ignored our dates the last 3 innings of Randy Johnson’s no-hitter.

When we weren’t at the game, listening to Dave reminded us that we needed to get back to the stadium soon, that we were missing out by doing whatever else we were doing.  

But more importantly, listening to Dave put us back in a place when it was ok to bring our glove to the game.  Because we listened to Dave when a 7pm game meant having your mom pick up your 3 friends at 4pm so we could be there for batting practice at 5pm.  

And so now we’ll have two eras – Dave and Post-Dave.  The Post-Dave era begins now, a definitive moment on a timeline that we hoped would be infinite.  We all had to grow up a little while we stood in that line.  For folks my age, our baseball grandfather had passed away.  The connection between us and the grand old stories of baseball past.  

We don’t get to pretend we’re young anymore.  The grand old stories of the past now include 1995, Gaylord Perry and Diego Segui, and we’ve suddenly become the caretakers of them.  We’re not learners anymore, we’re teachers, and I’m not sure I was ready for that switch.

But back to Safeco for a moment, where nearly 2 hours after beginning my trip in line, I get to the makeshift shrine.  It has some fantastic pieces of history, including the scorebook from the first game, and Dave’s Hall of Fame plaque.  And I don’t know what to do.  Do I take a picture? Do I smile?  What’s the respectful thing to do? what I want to do is just stand and absorb everything I’m feeling, and channel it into some sort of productive emotion.  But there are another 1000 people behind me in line, so I have but seconds, not the hours I would need.

Dave’s family stands next to the shrine, along with his long-time broadcast partner Rick Rizzs.  I can’t even imagine what it must be like to stand there for 4 hours and shake hands with 3,500 people you’ve never met, all of whom want to share the pain of your loss, even though they’ve never met the man themselves.  It must be the most complex, insane, yet gratifying feeling to see how many people cared about a person you were so close to.

The whole of the two hours was too much for me, and while I don’t break down inside the stadium, the sheer force of trying to control those emotions probably wrecks my psyche for a week.  But it is clear I am not alone in my struggles.  Everywhere I look, grown men are looking away at walls or the ceiling, in an obvious attempt to hide their wet eyes from their wives, sons and grandkids.  Women are more willing to let the tears flow.

And then it is time to leave.  I want to stay longer, because the next time I enter the stadium it will feel different.  It won’t be the same safe house from my memories, and all connection to the Kingdome will be lessened.  The next time I come in, it will be someone else’s house, with a different spirit, a different feel.  

Eventually, reluctantly, slowly, I walk out of the stadium.  I pass the shrine again.  And I cross the street without looking back.   

Busy Seattle Technology Marketing Week

If you’re in technology marketing and advertising, this is going to be a busy week.

Tuesday: Social Media Club October Event “Building Ambassadors Using Social Media” at The Canal in Ballard, 5300 34th Ave NW, Seattle, WA 98107 (6-9pm)

Wednesday: TechFlash Meetup at Spitfire Grill, 2219 4th Avenue Seattle, WA (5-8pm)

Thursday: NWIAG.com October Event at Havana’s Social, 1010 E. Pike St, Seattle, WA 98122.  (5-9pm)

See you all there.

Your City Council at Work

If you are like me, you may have passed by a number of homeless people this week and wondered what our local government was doing to get people back to work.  Or, you may have been stuck in traffic wondering what our city council is doing to fix the snarls.  Well, here’s what they were up to last week.  

(An excerpt from Nick Licata’s email newsletter)

THE EXHIBITION OF HUMAN REMAINS

In 2006, Premier Exhibition’s ‘Bodies: The Exhibition’ debuted in Seattle. Motorists were treated to billboards of bodies frozen in space and time, minus their skin. Those sensational billboards caught my attention, and the attention of many others I suspect. But, was it educational, as the exhibitors claimed?  In looking at those naked bodies, I wondered where they came from. Who volunteers and says, ‘please display my body playing basketball or engaged in some other sporty activity?’ To learn the answer, one must look to China. Its record on human rights leaves something to be desired (a point made as often by conservatives as liberals.) And there is a connection between human rights and these bodies on display.

PROPOSED LEGISLATION

After hearing from constituents and discussing the matter with my colleagues, I introduced a bill making it unlawful to publically display in Seattle human remains for commercial purposes without valid authorization from the deceased. My bill, co-sponsored by Councilmembers Burgess, Godden and Harrell, would not ban these exhibits if valid documentation is presented.

Yesterday, Councilmembers Clark, Harrell, Rasmussen and I discussed my bill during a meeting of the Housing, Health, Human Services and Culture Committee, which I chair. The legislation is modeled on San Francisco’s law. Among those at the table to discuss the bill was Ron Chew, former director of the Wing Luke Asian Art Museum and a scholar-in-residence at the University of Washington. Mr. Chew was joined by Bettie Luke, Administrative Director of the Organization of Chinese Americans of Greater Seattle.  At the conclusion of our discussion, the legislation was approved unanimously. It now goes before the full Council on Monday, July 19th, for a final vote.

I assume they will get to traffic and jobs next week.

Seattle City Council Oversteps Its Bounds With Arizona Boycott Resolution

It’s been a long time since I got on a political soapbox, but I need to vent a little about the Seattle City Council.

I’m not going to stand up and advocate that Arizona was right or wrong for passing their controversial Immigration law.  Like the U.S. Attorney General and most people with an opinion on the matter, I have not read the whole law from cover to cover.  However, unlike most others, I will refuse to pass judgement on a law that I have not read.

But that being said, I can’t even fathom how the Seattle City Council would have the hubris to pass a resolution which “urges Seattle city government to refrain from sending employees to Arizona and from entering into new contracts with businesses headquartered there –when legal and practicable.”

It’s one thing to manage and mismanage your own city.  But you cross a line when you tell another state that you could do their job better than them.  And you cross another line entirely when you actively and willfully go out of your way to harm individuals and businesses in that state.

Furthermore, the Council shows its complete hypocrisy, making sure the resolution does not interfere with the city’s biggest contract with an Arizona company: the red-light camera agreement with American Traffic Solutions.  This borders on the insane.  The Council is so upset about the potential civil liberty infringement upon the legal and illegal residents of Arizona caused by asking potential illegals for paperwork, that it is boycotting doing business with the state.  EXCEPT – it is fine with crossing the fuzzy line of infringing on the civil liberties and privacy of Seattleites with their profit generating “Gotcha” Red light cam program. You have to re-read the last sentence several times to let it sink it.  The Council is incensed at Arizona for allowing their State Police, when there is probable cause, to ask someone for proof of legal identification papers; BUT the Council is fabulously in love with its contracted army of 29 Orwellian traffic cameras that take pictures and send tickets to our own citizens.

Federalism works because people can move from state to state if they have objections to the laws their government implements.  It becomes an inherently flawed system when the state government cannot make decisions on behalf of its citizens, due to the fear that another state will punish it.  If this practice took hold, California, New York and Texas could pretty much dictate the laws of every city and state in the U.S.  

Furthermore, Seattle has our own issues that have gone unsolved for far too long, without wasting time debating how other states are handling theirs.  

Finally, the fact that the resolution passed 7-0 should scare everyone in Seattle into actually paying attention in 2011 to the next election cycle.  Not one person on the Council found it shortsighted or hypocritical to threaten an entire state based on their reaction to a law they had no influence on drafting.  What’s next?  Will we boycott buying products from any state that bans gay marriage or abortion?  How about we boycott doing business with any state where a Senator votes for sending more troops to Iraq?  Where does our Nanny-state City Council want to draw the line when telling other states how to run their business?

If I were Arizona, I’d respond by issuing a $1 million tax on every flight that lands in Sky Harbor Airport from a company based in Seattle.  Or put a $1 million per location franchise fee on every coffee company based in Seattle.

Disagree with me.  Am I way off base here?

Thanks SMC Folks

Just want to take a quick second to thank Shauna Causey, Joann Jen and the rest of the SMC crew for allowing me to grill three esteemed panelists for 45 minutes Tuesday night about Social Media topics.  I wish we had had more time for Q+A from the crowd, though I think the topic was so wide, we could have gone another hour and still not covered everything.  

A few follow-up notes for the record, in response to the #smcsea Tweetstream from last night. 

  • No disrespect to Whrrl.  I usually say, “Foursquare, Gowalla and Whrrl.”  Not sure why I left them out yesterday.  
  • I do believe GeoLocation and hyper local are key.  However, I wanted to surface some issues with them past the hype, which is why I asked Matt to take a devil advocate’s role.  For example, I still don’t understand how a major advertiser can deploy a hyper local campaign as painlessly as buying a TV spot. 
  • I don’t think you need to have a Twitter account to have Social Media expertise.  Social Media is about connections, deep and shallow.  Choosing not to engage in thousands of shallow conversations, doesn’t mean you don’t have knowledge about particular aspects of this medium.  (Yes I know that is too many negatives in one sentence.)
  • Thanks @Chex_mix for dropping in and watching the stream via Ustream.  Good to have you be part of the conversation.
  • Thanks to anyone who said nice things about the panel and/or moderator.  No offense, I’m just not going to get around to sending @replies to everyone.  But I do appreciate the kind words.
  • Ustream archive link is here.  Panel starts about an hour in.

See everyone at the next event.

What Ethical Questions Can We Answer For You?

The good folks over at SMC Seattle invited me to moderate a panel next Tuesday on “Ethics, Money and New Ideas.”  I’m not sure if they think I have plenty of those things, or am lacking.  Either way, I was happy to accept.

The panelists that I’ll be trying to prod into healthy debate include Andru Edwards, the CEO of Gear Live Media.  Andru went from blog hobbyist to full-time paid blogger, and he’s a definitive source for technology, pop culture, and entertainment news.  We’ll also have Izabelle Gorczynski, a privacy attorney at Microsoft, who is going to speak to international data protection matters relating to product development, sales and marketing, social media and data security,  as well as HIPAA compliance and medical privacy issues.  Rounding out the on-site group will be Matt Haynes from Wunderman. Ad agencies and ethics are always good ingredients for a spicy conversation.  So we’ll have the Influencer, the Lawyer and the Mad Man – If I can’t lead that cast into interesting storylines, I should be banned from any future events.

But being that this is a social media event, I do want to include ideas from attendees or readers.  If you have a social media ethics question, let me know via email, Twitter or comment box below, and I’ll work it into the conversation.

Pete Carroll on “How to Run a Social Media Program”

(Republished from Spring Creek Group blog.)

It’s not often that you get the chance to sit down with a two-time NCAA National Champion, and current NFL coach, to talk 1-on-1 about business and strategy.  And sadly, this was not one of those times.  But I did get to share a room with 300 other people to listen to the new chief Seahawk, Pete Carroll, share some wisdom and philosophy about business and coaching.

Carroll’s presentation was not actually entitled, “How to Run a Social Media Campaign.”  But with 400,000 Twitter followers, he could probably run an entire event on the matter if he so wished.  He spoke about general leadership and business philosophies, but when you peel away the adjectives, they are also extremely sound strategies for a social media program as well.  In honor of the 12thman, here are 12 philosophies I walked away with (and which will likely soon in up in one of our presentation decks).

(Quotes are paraphrases of Carroll’s speech, not necessarily direct quotes, and the photo is from the PSBJ recap.)

1)      “I wasn’t ready to be a head coach when I ran the Jets.  So it was a mistake to get involved.  But when I finally figured it out and was ready for the next role, I knew exactly what I needed to do, and what it would take to put it together.” Social media translation – If you don’t know what you are doing, don’t rush in.  Figure out what you need to do, and what it will take to get there.  Write everything down, start your program and make refinements along the way.  But know what the goals are, and what pieces you need to make them happen.

2)      “Look forward to the challenges ahead of you, rather than worry about them.” – If you’ve built out a solid plan, you can anticipate where there may be hurdles. When you are prepared and ready to face difficulties, whether they are organizational, technical, or content centric, you are in the proper mindset to find the right solutions in an efficient manner.

3)      “We all win sometimes.  But if you want to win forever, you figure out why you are winning.” –It’s not just that anyone can get lucky, it’s that everyone will get lucky at some point.  If you rest on a few wins without figuring out what exactly got you that bump in traffic or spike in friends, you’ll only be successful until the next company (possibly a competitor) gets their stroke of luck.

4)      “Winners battle for a competitive edge in everything they do.  Find those who want to do things better than other people, and you all will achieve greater things. Fight, scratch and claw to find a better way.” –Don’t just pick an employee or agency because they are convenient or easy.  Pick those with drive and passion to be better than others, and your campaigns will reflect that more so than someone who just wants to get a check.  Simply doing something because, ‘it’s how we’re used to doing it’ is not acceptable for a social media or marketing program.  Do what it takes to make something special happen.

5)      “Accomplishment is one thing, but it’s more important to understand how someone feels about that accomplishment.” –A line on a resume or a completed project only gets you so far.  Understanding whether the person thinks they could have done better, and how they’d do it over, is a better predictor of who is going to execute a quality campaign for you, and how your campaign is going to evolve over time.

6)      “Find the folks that other people are listening to.  Make an impact on them first, then the rest is easier.” –Identify your influencers.  But don’t try to sell them garbage.  Carroll used the word “impact” which is key.  Be “impactful” to those who matter the most, and you’ll get their support.

7)      “3 or 4 people in a crowd out of 15,000 can change a community.” –Carroll’s program to fight gang violence had a monetary return.  It cost about $100k to support each of these 3 or 4 influencers.  Each gang-related death costs the city $1 Million in legal fees.  So for every death Carroll’s group prevents, the city avoids having to pay out $1 Million.  Social media may not lead to direct sales, but can you determine if it is preventing additional costs on expensive PR efforts later?

8)      “Do things better than anyone else has ever done before, in all the things you choose to do.” — You don’t have to do everything, but if you are going to do it, don’t just do it well, shoot to do it better than everyone else. Basically, “mediocrity” not “failure” is the enemy of “excellence.”

9)      “Know your philosophy.  If you can’t articulate your own philosophy in 25 words or less, how do you expect anyone who works for you or around you to explain it to others?” –Your social media program needs a vision and a voice, and it needs to be articulated to everyone in your company.

10)    “John Wooden had his own way of doing things that were unique.  He could draw on people from all walks of life, because they could all focus on his unique way.” –Your brand needs its own unique identity, philosophy and vision if you want people to be drawn to it.  If you do things out of a standardized process or playbook, you only cater to those people who agree with that playbook.  If you do your own thing, you can draw everyone who believes in the vision.

11)    “Empower yourself to do everything you can do, in the areas you control.  Don’t worry about the things you can’t.” –Don’t stress about whether people will say something negative.  You control the product you develop, the price you sell it for, and the way you promote it.  You control how you respond to your customers and how you cater to their needs.  Focus on that, and don’t waste energy on the other stuff.

12)   “Evaluate, Address areas of concern, and fill the holes.”  –This goes to the Spring Creek Group philosophy of 1) Analyze Data, 2) Develop a Strategic Plan, and 3) Engage the Community.  Take a good hard look at what you have, figure out the best course of action, and then be relentless in fulfilling those needs.

You can follow Carroll on Twitter at @PeteCarroll.  Also, a full-length video of his speech can be found on the Seahawks web site.

A Few Notes on Rob Glaser Leaving Real

I was going to resist sharing any public thoughts on the end of Rob Glaser’s 16 year reign at the head of RealNetworks.  But as I read through some of the comment boards, trolls and scrubs who have never started anything in their life have taken some cheap shots, so I’m going to give my take.

In 1994, we had 14.4 modems and something called Mozilla to surf the web.  Microsoft was finally rethinking their now infamous decision that the Internet wasn’t a place where they should concentrate. And Glaser looked into his crystal ball and said, “You know what, I bet some day we’re going to use our computers to watch programming more than we use our TV’s.” You have to remember, that back in 1994 that idea was akin to someone today saying, “I’m going to be able to take this IP signal from my watch and make it a holographic projector that plays HD signals against blank walls at 1080i.” 

Now, not every decision was right.  And plenty of smart people were under-utilized.  I was just a young Marketing Manager, and never in the inner circle of decision making, so I have little insight, and sometimes fell victim, to some head scratching decisions.

But at the end of the day, Rob built an industry from scratch, weathered recessions of 2001 and 2009, had to battle the full force of Microsoft’s vengeance when they realized it was a space they needed to be in, distributed more than a billion RealPlayers without much of a marketing budget, took his company public, changed his business model on the fly from software to subscription, and had to balance the public’s desire for free media vs the music industry’s desire to extort money from all of us.  That’s a pretty complex game of Lemonade Stand he had going.  Go through and name all the companies that you’ve seen in your lifetime that started before (or around) Real and have been more successful while staying independent.  Microsoft, Apple, Google, ebay, Amazon, Yahoo.  You can’t say AOL – they sold out.  Skype – sell out.  YouTube – sell out.  Netscape – gone.  Napster – gone.  Maybe Adobe and Oracle? Sidewalk – gone.  Expedia came out of Microsoft and sold out to IAB, so they don’t count.  I’m sure there are a few more, but the list is pretty small.

It would have been easy for Rob to sell to Microsoft in the late 90’s for a few billion.  We all probably would have made a few more short-term bucks.  And Microsoft would have had to spend way less money than they did over the next decade systematically trying to destroy Real.  But he didn’t sell, so we all took our sticks and bows to fight against the machine guns – and we did pretty well.

I have a lot of anecdotes about Rob that don’t need to be shared here, but I’ll sum it all up with this.  If you have the pleasure to run into him at an event, introduce yourself and say hi.  He’ll grill you on your business and ask 100 questions abut what you’re working on.  The conversation will move so fast that it will be hard to keep up.  But you’ll understand how smart the guy really is, and you’ll see that he simply wanted to win.  

My guess is that around the halls of RealNetworks this week, people are looking forward to change.  They see a happier, more corporate, less politically incorrect place where they won’t get yelled at for mistakes.  But the problem is that most of those people weren’t there in the 90’s.  To them, there’s always been audio and video on the Internet, and they simply don’t get why Real was such a big deal.  They don’t understand that they worked for the Web’s very own Marconi, they just want to complain about his flaws.  But around the city, you see Real Alumni collectively tipping our caps.  And I know a lot of people say this, but I still have more friends than I can count from my days at Real.  The people were there (with some notable exceptions) were fantastic.  Smart, gifted, ridiculously focused and cool.  There was something about that company, especially back in the 1990’s, that drew great people who were glutton for punishment.  I remember telling my dad when I first started there, “It’s pretty scary.  Every meeting I feel like I’m the dumbest guy in the room.” 

No one is perfect, and like everyone Rob has his flaws, but it was a real professional privilege to work down the food chain from someone who built an entire industry.